Going as far as: 〜てまで・〜までして
Verb-て + まで ; N + までして
Verb-て + まで / N + までして: going as far as an extreme means to get something, often with a judgement (“it's not worth it”).
In short
〜てまで says someone goes as far as an extreme means (getting into debt, lying, ruining their health) to get something. There's almost always a judgement: “it's not worth it” or “he went that far!”. With a noun, you say 〜までして.
- 借金してまで旅行したいとは思わない。しゃっきんしてまでりょこうしたいとはおもわない。I wouldn't go as far as getting into debt to travel.
- 体を壊してまで働く必要はない。からだをこわしてまではたらくひつようはない。There's no need to work yourself into the ground.
- 徹夜までして書いたレポートなのに、だれも読んでくれなかった。てつやまでしてかいたれぽーとなのに、だれもよんでくれなかった。I even pulled an all-nighter to write that report, and nobody read it.
The basics
まで marks an extreme limit: “as far as”. Placed after a verb in て, it refers to a means you consider excessive, used to reach a goal. The sentence often ends in a judgement: 〜たくない, 〜必要はない, 〜とは思わない, or in admiring or disapproving astonishment.
I wouldn't go as far as getting into debt to travel.
- verb
- grammatical form
- other
- 人をだましてまでお金がほしいとは思わない。ひとをだましてまでおかねがほしいとはおもわない。I don't want money badly enough to cheat people to get it.
How to form it
Verb in the て-form + まで, then the goal. With an action noun, you say N + までして (“going as far as doing N”).
| Base | Form | Example |
|---|---|---|
| Verb-て | 〜てまで | 並んでまで、借金してまで |
| Noun | N までして | 徹夜までして、借金までして |
| Typical judgement | 〜てまで〜たくない | 無理してまで行きたくない |
- 三時間も並んでまで食べたいとは思わない。さんじかんもならんでまでたべたいとはおもわない。I wouldn't queue for three hours just to eat that.
- 彼は家を売ってまで、会社を守ろうとした。かれはいえをうってまで、かいしゃをまもろうとした。He went as far as selling his house to save his company.
Criticism or admiration
Most often, 〜てまで expresses disapproval: “it's not worth that”. But it can also highlight remarkable devotion, when you're telling of someone's effort. Either way, you stress that the normal limit has been exceeded.
- 母は自分の時間を犠牲にしてまで、私たちを育ててくれた。はははじぶんのじかんをぎせいにしてまで、わたしたちをそだててくれた。My mother brought us up, going as far as sacrificing all her free time.
まで, さえ, and まで meaning “until”
さえ (N3) shows the most obvious example (“even”): 子どもでさえ分かる. まで (N3) adds one more, surprising element: 弟まで来た. 〜てまで is a special use of this まで: the excessive means.
Don't confuse it with time まで (“until five o'clock”): 〜てまで isn't about time.
| Construction | Meaning | Example |
|---|---|---|
| 〜てまで | go as far as (extreme means) | 借金してまで |
| N まで | even, as far as (one too many) | 弟まで反対した |
| N さえ | even (the most obvious case) | 子どもでさえ分かる |
| 時間 + まで | until (time) | 五時まで働く |
- この問題は子どもでさえ分かる。このもんだいはこどもでさえわかる。Even a child can understand this problem. (さえ)
Common mistakes
- Translating it as “until”: 〜てまで doesn't mark a time limit but an extreme means.
- Missing the implied judgement: 借金してまで買う almost always implies “it's not worth it”.
- Saying 借金してまでして: with a verb, it's 〜てまで; までして only follows a noun.
7 exercises on this point
Particles to choose, sentences to put back in order, translations: marked straight away, then reviewed at the right time. This JLPT N2 point is on the Meitetsu Inuyama Line (History and traditions) of the Nagoya lines.